0:00:04.440,0:00:11.440 My name is Cass Mann. I'm the founder of Positively Healthy and the chief executive, and Positively 0:00:12.730,0:00:18.119 Healthy is the United Kingdom's only gay men's HIV and AIDS charity, and we're now in our 0:00:18.119,0:00:23.710 twenty-third year of operations. Something I didn't expect I would still be doing twenty 0:00:23.710,0:00:28.790 three years later, because I thought gay men would have learned from the first, second, 0:00:28.790,0:00:35.790 and third wave of AIDS how exactly to stop it. I will make a statement that might not 0:00:36.360,0:00:41.440 appeal to everyone, but I will say any gay men getting infected today is getting infected 0:00:41.440,0:00:48.440 deliberately, because we know the ways to avoid getting HIV, and anyone getting infected 0:00:49.679,0:00:56.679 has to a certain extent made a choice to not practice safer sex, to not use a condom, to 0:00:56.819,0:01:03.819 have sex when they are incapable of negotiating safety, such as under the influence of alcohol, 0:01:04.659,0:01:11.659 recreational drugs (particularly ecstasy), lysergic acid diethylamide, and crystal meth, 0:01:12.510,0:01:18.390 which is the NEW major killer on the scene. As well of course as the old favorites alcohol. 0:01:18.390,0:01:25.390 Works every time! No gay man I know takes "a drug." They take a whole RANGE of drugs. 0:01:25.510,0:01:32.090 So what they have is a polypharmaceutical effect, which renders them unconscious, and 0:01:32.090,0:01:39.060 you add to that something like crystal meth or ketamine ("Special K"), and it's lethal. 0:01:39.060,0:01:44.200 So anyone getting infected today, any gay man getting infected today, has to a certain 0:01:44.200,0:01:50.430 extent made a decision that it's "OK" to become HIV positive, or even to go on to develop 0:01:50.430,0:01:57.430 AIDS. "Barebacking" they call it, don't they, it sounds romantic; it sounds like some sort 0:01:57.450,0:02:03.650 of Western, you know, like some sort of Brokeridge Mountain scenario. Well, it's not. I've seen 0:02:03.650,0:02:09.519 people in hospitals shitting their lives away who thought barebacking was a fun thing to 0:02:09.519,0:02:16.519 do. Today in London we have clubs specifically for HIV positive gay men where they can go 0:02:17.660,0:02:24.030 on a Sunday afternoon (they open about two, different clubs open at different times) and 0:02:24.030,0:02:30.910 you get two, three, four, five hundred people who CLAIM to be positive. And these clubs 0:02:30.910,0:02:36.950 are called things like "Pig Pit Plus" and various derivatives of those names, and in 0:02:36.950,0:02:43.080 these clubs, these gay men who are HIV positive or claim they are, you might have "bug chasers" 0:02:43.080,0:02:49.090 present as well, those who WANT to become infected, who have unprotected sex with each 0:02:49.090,0:02:54.990 other, throughout the course of the next few hours. The clubs boast of being alcohol-free, 0:02:54.990,0:03:01.990 but they are "death wish" clubs. They are clubs where transmission of HIV, Hepatitis 0:03:02.760,0:03:09.760 B/C, whatever STIs (Sexually Transmitted Infections) is going around, it's shared by everybody. 0:03:10.180,0:03:15.390 The "goody bag" you leave with at the end of the visit is something you didn't come 0:03:15.390,0:03:20.280 in with perhaps. A new strain of HIV? You could get a reinfection, a co-infection, a 0:03:20.280,0:03:25.400 superinfection. You could pick up hepatitis, which is a killer, B and C. You could pick 0:03:25.400,0:03:32.400 up syphilis, all sorts of STIs which, in combination with HIV, or even by themselves, are killers. 0:03:35.260,0:03:42.260 But these clubs are sanctioned! Great Britain's major AIDS charity, Terrence Higgins Trust, 0:03:43.430,0:03:50.430 gives a "seal of approval," a hallmark. They call these places "Play Zones." And these 0:03:51.380,0:03:58.380 places trade because they say "Oh, we provide condoms, so we are somehow not complicit in 0:04:01.629,0:04:07.640 what takes places because condoms are available." And whether or not people choose to use them, 0:04:07.640,0:04:14.640 or not use them, is another matter. But, to me, that is not exoneration. It is something 0:04:16.500,0:04:23.130 that is a dereliction of duty when this country's leading AIDS charity says "We will hallmark 0:04:23.130,0:04:28.889 a venue where unsafe sex takes place," KNOWING it takes place, and allow new infections to 0:04:28.889,0:04:34.790 occur. And I puzzled about this, I thought "Why is this happening?" And then I thought 0:04:34.790,0:04:41.790 "Hey, it's a really simple answer." If AIDS charities, such as including mine, didn't 0:04:42.540,0:04:49.540 have a regular new influx of HIV positive gay men, we'd have to close down wouldn't 0:04:49.560,0:04:55.550 we, we'd all be out of a job. So what keeps us in work, and hey I would love to be out 0:04:55.550,0:05:02.550 of work in this field, is a regular input of newly infected HIV positive gay men. They 0:05:03.870,0:05:09.560 pay our salaries, they get us to work in the morning, they make us feel good about ourselves. 0:05:09.560,0:05:16.240 Because, you know, last year in this country we had over 2000 gay men who became HIV positive. 0:05:16.240,0:05:23.240 Why the fuck? Everyone knows how to avoid it. It's no big drama and no big deal to avoid 0:05:24.630,0:05:30.180 HIV if you're a gay man. In this country we have a law. When you get into a car, you've 0:05:30.180,0:05:36.510 got to wear a seat belt. You get into your car, and we had a campaign when seat belts 0:05:36.510,0:05:42.280 were launched, called "Clunk, Click, Every Trip." And the law was resisted. People said 0:05:42.280,0:05:49.280 it's against our freedom, it's against our freedom to express our liberty, libertarian, 0:05:49.800,0:05:54.800 it's a dereliction of all our rights, and so they opposed the law. But it was found 0:05:54.800,0:06:01.160 to be a very good law. People who wore safe seat belts didn't die. Princess Diana and 0:06:01.160,0:06:08.160 Dodi Fayyed -- if they'd worn seat belts, hey, they'd still be here! So, why don't we 0:06:08.419,0:06:13.540 transfer the same intelligence over to the way we have sex. If when we get into a car 0:06:13.540,0:06:18.240 we wear a seatbelt to preserve our lives, if every time we fuck why the hell don't we 0:06:18.240,0:06:25.240 use a condom? Condoms are not 100% foolproof but they're better than nothing. So I can't 0:06:26.830,0:06:32.840 work out why ... I mean I can now ... but I couldn't work out why gay men refuse to 0:06:32.840,0:06:39.840 wear condoms. I had to go back to ... to Freud to understand what was happening. Freud's 0:06:40.960,0:06:46.610 had the bad press I know but he said some remarkably, remarkably astute things. And 0:06:46.610,0:06:51.080 one of the things that I picked up from Freud that to me explained what was happening with, 0:06:51.080,0:06:58.080 um, gay men getting infected was thanatos, which is the love of death. And in the gay 0:06:59.380,0:07:04.490 community I feel that we have moved from Eros and the sixties with sexual liberation, love 0:07:04.490,0:07:11.490 of body, love of sex, love of pleasure, hedonism, and we moved straight from that narcissistic 0:07:12.250,0:07:19.250 pleasuring world, not into filos, which is love of your brother, or agape, which is unconditional 0:07:19.800,0:07:26.800 love, but to thanatos, death wish. I feel it is true, and I have in 23 years found this 0:07:27.830,0:07:34.830 to be true, having worked with over 4000 gay men in this time, that we are more attached 0:07:36.660,0:07:43.660 to death than to life, especially as we approach a certain age, round about 40 is what the 0:07:44.039,0:07:51.009 literature, the scientific literature tells us, gay men feel lives aren't worth living. 0:07:51.009,0:07:58.009 And I think that gradually, as we approach that age, HIV doesn't become a problem because 0:07:59.350,0:08:04.280 life isn't worth living anyway. And some of the newest infections, and the most worrying 0:08:04.280,0:08:11.160 infections, are in gay men now, in that age group, the ones who avoided becoming HIV positive 0:08:11.160,0:08:17.250 for all those decades, and are now succumbing, they're joining the club, it's like they're 0:08:17.250,0:08:23.039 letting the other shoe drop. I for instance have lost all my peer group. I started off, 0:08:23.039,0:08:29.710 before I started Positively Healthy, running Great Britain's largest gay night club, Heaven, 0:08:29.710,0:08:36.709 and also Great Britain's most notorious night club called the Embassy Club in old Bond Street 0:08:36.709,0:08:42.099 which was the glitziest ritziest club in Great Britain and every single person I worked with 0:08:42.099,0:08:49.099 there who's gay is dead of, um, AIDS. But also, it's not just HIV. They were also very 0:08:49.500,0:08:56.320 heavily into drugs, many of them. And then I think of the people who could still be here, 0:08:56.320,0:09:02.430 because the drugs do work these days, they really do work, who would be as appalled as 0:09:02.430,0:09:09.430 I am as to why young men, and gay men over 40 are getting infected, because our love 0:09:10.370,0:09:16.800 of death has overcome our love of life, and thanatos has overcome Eros, and death has 0:09:16.800,0:09:23.800 become what we worship now. And this is something that is recognized by the AIDS charities that 0:09:25.680,0:09:31.270 promote venues where unsafe sex happens because it's "Hey, these guys are going to have unsafe 0:09:31.270,0:09:36.060 sex anyway, so let's make a living out of it." I mean I can't speak for every ONE of 0:09:36.060,0:09:41.120 those charities or agencies but that's what I see happening. Do your own research. Go 0:09:41.120,0:09:45.420 online and see what these charities are saying. Put their names into Google and have a look 0:09:45.420,0:09:51.580 at their web sites and you'll find that they're not THAT attached to keeping people safe because 0:09:51.580,0:09:56.550 you would not hallmark a venue where unsafe sex takes place by saying it's OK because 0:09:56.550,0:10:01.810 somewhere on the wall there's a condom machine. It's not good enough to say that. And let's 0:10:01.810,0:10:08.810 not use the word barebacking. It's actually a slow suicide. It's not clever, it's not 0:10:10.060,0:10:17.060 intelligent, and I've been at workshops where health educators who work for various charities 0:10:17.820,0:10:23.510 say that "Oh, we don't use condoms ourselves," (and they're HIV positive gay men) "because 0:10:23.510,0:10:28.800 I don't let anything come between me and my pleasure." And they don't even tell their 0:10:28.800,0:10:34.670 partners that they're positive or that they have AIDS or anything like that. They say, 0:10:34.670,0:10:41.670 "Well, it's ... it takes two to tango. If they don't ask me, I don't disclose. Nor do 0:10:42.140,0:10:48.140 I take the precaution that makes disclosure unnecessary." And I say "No, if you know you're 0:10:48.140,0:10:53.370 positive, you HAVE to even if you don't disclose INSIST on a condom and use." And they say 0:10:53.370,0:10:58.930 "No, if I insisted on a condom and used they'd assume I was positive." I say "No, they'd 0:10:58.930,0:11:04.410 assume you were intelligent." But intelligence is in short supply in the gay community. It's 0:11:04.410,0:11:11.410 a very unconscious community now. What the gay community revolves around today is an 0:11:11.450,0:11:18.450 enormous amount of drugs and alcohol, it fuels our community, and in that context, the content 0:11:19.930,0:11:25.209 of becoming HIV positive is not surprising. So if you're seeing two and a half thousand 0:11:25.209,0:11:30.019 gay men getting infected last year, heaven knows how many this year. It's only going 0:11:30.019,0:11:34.910 to escalate because it's not a question of education. It's a question of respecting yourself 0:11:34.910,0:11:41.459 enough to not want to become infected. If you respected yourself enough you would every 0:11:41.459,0:11:46.920 time use a condom, you would every time take precautions, you would every time insist, 0:11:46.920,0:11:52.600 and you would check out your partner. For instance, these venues where people have sex, 0:11:52.600,0:11:59.600 parks, and you know various dark rooms and back rooms, you don't know who you're having 0:11:59.649,0:12:05.029 sex with! I mean, if you saw them in the light, you might see there's something wrong with 0:12:05.029,0:12:10.829 them. When you're body's ill or diseased, there are sometimes clear indications that 0:12:10.829,0:12:15.230 your body's ill or diseased and you can pick it up. The person might have a rash, they 0:12:15.230,0:12:20.220 might have genital warts, they might have things you think "I don't want to have sex 0:12:20.220,0:12:26.930 with you because my God what the hell's that?" But because the way we have sex the lights 0:12:26.930,0:12:31.800 are off, we don't know what's going on, who are you having sex with? You're having sex 0:12:31.800,0:12:36.490 with your killer. That's what you're having sex with. Because you're not intelligent enough 0:12:36.490,0:12:40.970 to see who you're fucking or who's fucking you. You don't know what's going on because 0:12:40.970,0:12:45.529 you haven't seen this person. If you have sex in a back room or a park where there's 0:12:45.529,0:12:52.529 no lights, who ARE you having sex with? I mean you know it's DEATH! I mean not only 0:12:52.899,0:12:59.140 are gay men getting mugged and beaten up and assaulted and killed. But getting HIV infected 0:12:59.140,0:13:05.140 is not that dissimilar. Except this time YOU did it to yourself. And I would say to you, 0:13:05.140,0:13:10.820 my message to you is very clear. EVERY time you get into your car, clunk-click every trip. 0:13:10.820,0:13:15.310 You wear a seat belt. Every time you have sex, you rubber up, or you don't have sex. 0:13:15.310,0:13:22.310 You haven't got a condom, hey, don't have sex -- do something else! I can't see HIV 0:13:23.720,0:13:30.720 amongst gay men stopping in its tracks because I just find a total lack of intelligence and, 0:13:33.440,0:13:40.440 and um any self-awareness of who we are as gay men. We seem to have not learned from 0:13:40.490,0:13:47.190 the last three decades of HIV and AIDS. And if we had learned the lessons HIV/AIDS would 0:13:47.190,0:13:53.450 have been stopped in its tracks a long time ago. And because we have no elders, because 0:13:53.450,0:13:59.670 we have no one to learn from ... the first wave killed everybody, well, almost everybody, 0:13:59.670,0:14:06.399 and then gradually, no one was around that we wanted to listen to, so there was no one 0:14:06.399,0:14:13.399 to learn from, we had no role models. You know I'm not discounting people like Larry 0:14:14.010,0:14:18.459 Kramer or the late Michael Callen or people like that but you know I can think of only 0:14:18.459,0:14:24.300 two or three names, and the way I feel education works is that we learn from one another more 0:14:24.300,0:14:31.300 than we learn from icons, and because the one another are as unconscious as unaware 0:14:31.450,0:14:36.899 as asleep as we are, we defeat each other, we pull each other down into the abyss and 0:14:36.899,0:14:41.899 to the pit. That's why were dying. Because the ones we're clinging to are going down 0:14:41.899,0:14:47.050 the mountain with us. And if we're all on the rope climbing up together once the first 0:14:47.050,0:14:51.610 person falls we fall with them. We're all falling together. That's what's happening 0:14:51.610,0:14:57.420 to our community today. That's why we're getting HIV infected. And that's why we're dying. 0:14:57.420,0:15:04.420 And finally I want to say that the first wave of AIDS everyone was sympathetic, empathetic. 0:15:05.019,0:15:10.139 They understood that we didn't know there was a killer virus out there, or a potentially 0:15:10.139,0:15:17.139 killer virus out there. Now, less and less, because I keep hearing, "How come you ... 0:15:18.130,0:15:24.110 how come you at twenty one, or you at forty, are becoming HIV positive? You know, you know 0:15:24.110,0:15:29.430 what you need to do to avoid ..." So we don't get the sympathy, we don't get the empathy, 0:15:29.430,0:15:34.540 and once we lose the funding, once we lose the sympathy, the empathy, once we lose access 0:15:34.540,0:15:41.540 to services ... someone who is HIV positive costs the British government about 25 to 30 0:15:41.920,0:15:46.449 thousand pounds a year to take care of, as far as medication and clinical care goes. 0:15:46.449,0:15:52.560 They might think that this is avoidable. Why are we funding someone who is going out and 0:15:52.560,0:15:59.560 getting reinfected and co-infected and superinfected picking up new diseases. Why are we keeping 0:15:59.870,0:16:05.310 this person alive? Already there's talk about not operating on obese people, not operating 0:16:05.310,0:16:11.010 on smokers and alcoholics. HIV positive gay men might be next in line. Let's not give 0:16:11.010,0:16:16.529 them that opportunity. I don't know how we get intelligent. Each one does it for themselves. 0:16:16.529,0:16:21.550 I can't do it for you. You can't do it for me. Each does it for themselves. Caveat emptor.